Rules

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Rules

Post by Pushkin on Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:06 am

Im not really sure if the greatest match difference wins thing is really going to work well, since for example out of 10 teams team 9 might win 20 times over team 10 and end up being first, maybe there should be something like you gain as many points as the difference is between your team and the team higher than you +1, if you are higher than the other team you gain 1 point.


example:

1 fx
2 NbZ
3 mids
4 cg
5 ck
6 Ins (muhahahaha)

now if cg wins over fx if will gain (4-1)+1 points which is 4, if it will win over mids it gains (4-3)+1 points which is 2 and if it wins over any of ck or ins it will gain only one point since its higher ranked than them. This way the ladder should be more objective and there is still motivation to battle teams which are ranked below you (kindof like the ELO thing just waaaaaaaay simpler)

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Re: Rules

Post by Cyber on Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:15 am

Okai, i'll actually wait for the opinion of the other ones if ppl agree with this system i'll turn the actual one to it.
Let me know what you think.
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Re: Rules

Post by cnik on Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:44 am

go go ELO (if that's what babonation used)

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Re: Rules

Post by Pushkin on Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:35 am

no its not, its simpler, since ELO uses a quite complicated formula, which you dont want to calcuate every single time. This is just more of an unbiased ranking, thats all...

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Re: Rules

Post by Dysproz on Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:21 pm

WEll...I'm little drunk..but I think that not every team is equal(sry) and we got to think about some other way of giving points(babonation rules was kind of quite reliable)(btw +1100 for Nbz guys for living up the euro clans competition) but i'm not the biggest brain..i just think that (for ex.) ins playing 1000 cm's with with new clan is not equal wirh wS or dead heroes playiing 1000 cm's with mids,fx or nbz...just my opinion..
have a good..morning..me and my old smuggler friend says you "see you"...
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Re: Rules

Post by Anette on Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:01 am

ofc there is a difference between clans, but how good a team is, should just be based on how they are ranked in this. There is many many ways to make this formula really complicated, but if you guy want a ladder up and running, keeping it as simple as possible is the only solution. If this ladder is still running after a few months then you can find ways to make it more "fair".
In push's example, fx gets 1 point if they beat NbZ and 1 point if they beat Ins?
Cause that does seem a bit unfair since in this example (only in this example ;D)NbZ is clearly more of a challenge for fx than Ins would be. And there really would be no reason for fx to ever play anyone other than the lowest ranked team as long as they are on top Smile


Last edited by Anette on Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rules

Post by Saddam on Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:37 am

in my opinion we should make a schedule Very Happy (match +rematch). As many clans should be join(Uc and Ins, maybe |3), 8 teams will play= each team will play 14 matches.
Victory:2 points
Lose:1 points
List clans:
1. Nbz
2. The Joker Element
3. [00:00]
4. .wS.
5. Dj
6. fx
7. Uc
8. |3
9. Insomnia(if they will play Razz)

for example:
1st Round:
1. fx vs NbZ
2. wS vs Uc
3. >?< vs 00:00
4. Dj vs |3

2nd Round
1. Nbz vs 00:00
2. fx vs >?<
3. .wS. vs |3
4. Uc vs Dj

ofc you can play 1st round and next you can play match vs opponent with 10th Round.
if this option is good i can take care of this. Just i must know your opinion.
Cya Smile

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Re: Rules

Post by Anette on Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:51 am

that is a tournament, and not a ladder Wink
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Re: Rules

Post by Saddam on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:19 am

ladder is a tournament too ... Razz

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Re: Rules

Post by Anette on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:40 am

in theory a ladder never ends, a tournament does Smile
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Re: Rules

Post by Saddam on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:51 am

so i know and you too that this ladder will be finished in the future

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Re: Rules

Post by Cyber on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:57 am

Well, just let me know if you think that the system has to changed or if i've to keep this one. And keep playing !.
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Re: Rules

Post by Devil on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:11 am

I suppose the team that has first place in the ladder might not have good reasons to play the lower rank teams, however they will still play them as the lower rank teams will usually challenge the higher rank teams. Even if the first placed team refuses, they will still have to play now and again or they will end up losing first place as other teams gather points.

So Push's idea is not bad and it's quite simple. I like it and it would make things a little bit more fair by just adding a couple of calculations.
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Re: Rules

Post by Gerry on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 am

Devil wrote:I suppose the team that has first place in the ladder might not have good reasons to play the lower rank teams, however they will still play them as the lower rank teams will usually challenge the higher rank teams. Even if the first placed team refuses, they will still have to play now and again or they will end up losing first place as other teams gather points.

So Push's idea is not bad and it's quite simple. I like it and it would make things a little bit more fair by just adding a couple of calculations.

yep i agree with push and devil too... the formula is not so complicated but it make the ladder more interesting and fair Very Happy
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Re: Rules

Post by Cyber on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:24 am

Okay i failed both years at math so tell me what i should to.
It's okay if i've to turn it to Push's system and if someone would like to manage standings with me just ask for.
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Re: Rules

Post by Pushkin on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:38 am

Actually i must admit i didnt think of the problem with higher ranked teams having a motivation deficit playing lower ranked teams, so that deifinitely would present a problem. Ive tried to think of some simple addition to the formula, but nothing simple worked the way i wanted it to. Thus i decided that the best possibility for this ladder actually is an ELO system. However calculating the ELO ratings on your own is clearly going to be a mess. For this reason ive found a very nice and clear internet website, which even cyber with no math skills at all can handle:

http://www.namibianchessfederation.com/Pages/calculator.php

This is a simple ELO calculator that needs only starting ELO as input and voila.

Ive taken the time to calculate ELOs for the current standing, given that every team starts with a 1000 ELO.

Mids 1017
NbZ 1016 CROWN
fx 1014
DJ 984
>?< 969

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Re: Rules

Post by Peacemaker on Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:44 am

I think a elo system will be great Smile
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Re: Rules

Post by Pushkin on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:18 am

Well, can we get this going, since its without doubt the best solution for the ladder and at the same time really simple.

Besides, why is noone playing ladder games, whats wrong guys, dont be scared, every clan is going to loose once eventually Wink

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Re: Rules

Post by fuazi on Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:41 am

which even cyber with no math skills at all can handle:
Very Happy
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Re: Rules

Post by Ya˘ on Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:53 am

Pushkin wrote:Actually i must admit i didnt think of the problem with higher ranked teams having a motivation deficit playing lower ranked teams, so that deifinitely would present a problem. Ive tried to think of some simple addition to the formula, but nothing simple worked the way i wanted it to. Thus i decided that the best possibility for this ladder actually is an ELO system. However calculating the ELO ratings on your own is clearly going to be a mess. For this reason ive found a very nice and clear internet website, which even cyber with no math skills at all can handle:

http://www.namibianchessfederation.com/Pages/calculator.php

This is a simple ELO calculator that needs only starting ELO as input and voila.

Ive taken the time to calculate ELOs for the current standing, given that every team starts with a 1000 ELO.

Mids 1017
NbZ 1016 CROWN
fx 1014
DJ 984
>?< 969

That rocks.
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Re: Rules

Post by Cyber on Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:48 am

Okay it's done.
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Re: Rules

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