Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Cinc on Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:58 am

I'm not at home right now, I'm at my cousin so I'll send the code and everything else when i get home (tonight or tommorrow morning)
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Gerry on Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:28 am

here ill explain my idea for the new ELO:

basically we can use the ELO system from chess, with some modify in order to consider that in babo not every ladder goes straight 2-0-0 but we can have 2-1-1 or 2-2-1 etc etc... and imo is quite unfair to consider a 2-0-0 equal to a 2-1-1 coz in the 2nd case the ladder match was more balanced.

here it goes:

EV_V = expectation value of a victory
EV_L = expectation value of a loss

RF = real force (based on u'r current elo point)
N_RF = new real force (new elo point, after the ladder match)

D = 400 (division factor)
K = 100 (amplification factor)
WDL = win/draw/loss multiplier (WDL is between 0 and 1) (NEW!)

same method as chess elo:
EV_V= 1/(1+10^((RF_1-RF_2)/400))
EV_L=1-EV_V

WDL= (W-0,1*D-0,25*L)/W , with: W = # of win, D= # of draw. L= # of loss (of the ladder match)

new elo points for the winner:
N_RF=RF+K*(WDL-EV_L)

new elo points for the looser:
N_RF=RF+K*(1-WDL-EV_L)

so the only real modify is to consider the case of a more balanced match through the WDL factor.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by dizzy on Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:49 am

good idea gerry i think we can do it
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Gerry on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:04 am

well right now the rank is updated in this way... more addon can be added, if cinc want to give me and hand to improve my method.

btw i did it in excel... coz i really hate every programming lenguage (c++ and company), i like only matlab Very Happy or derive (every lenguage who is useful to the physics Razz )
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Baboow on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:21 am

Gerry wrote:
WDL= (W-0,1*D-0,25*L)/W , with: W = # of win, D= # of draw. L= # of loss (of the ladder match)

new elo points for the winner:
N_RF=RF+K*(WDL-EV_L)

new elo points for the looser:
N_RF=RF+K*(1-WDL-EV_L)
Air wrote:
good idea gerry i think we can do it

rofl

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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Cyber on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:22 am

Baboow wrote:
Gerry wrote:
WDL= (W-0,1*D-0,25*L)/W , with: W = # of win, D= # of draw. L= # of loss (of the ladder match)

new elo points for the winner:
N_RF=RF+K*(WDL-EV_L)

new elo points for the looser:
N_RF=RF+K*(1-WDL-EV_L)
Air wrote:
good idea gerry i think we can do it

rofl

Hey homie don't play that he has really understood that math formula.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Cyber on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:30 am

Everything has been fixed.
Thanks to Gerry and Cinc for have done the biggest part of the work.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Cinc on Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:46 pm

Bah, seems like my uber-cool-super-ownage-pwn program was useless in the end Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

But maybe i can just put gerry's formula in it.... would that be useful Question Question Question
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Gerry on Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:46 pm

Gerry wrote:well right now the rank is updated in this way... more addon can be added, if cinc want to give me and hand to improve my method.

btw i did it in excel... coz i really hate every programming lenguage (c++ and company), i like only matlab Very Happy or derive (every lenguage who is useful to the physics Razz )


Cinc wrote:Bah, seems like my uber-cool-super-ownage-pwn program was useless in the end Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

But maybe i can just put gerry's formula in it.... would that be useful Question Question Question

yes it would be! Very Happy

btw i were thinking about some plug-in like:


  • crown will give to the owner some point (so it's usefull fight for the crown and ladder will be more interesting and competitive)
  • some cool tags like in the previous ladder (for example 5-10 straight win etc...)
  • do u have some other ideas??? xD
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Sasha on Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:53 am

ya, actually I do have one:

will make it much more competitive
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Adm on Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:14 am

Sasha wrote:ya, actually I do have one:

will make it much more competitive
wrong Razz



riiiiight Cool
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Baboow on Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:15 am

rofl maybe some place else, smaller Razz

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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Gerry on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:07 am

some useful comment?
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Sasha on Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:26 pm

An useful comment.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Cinc on Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:27 pm

Here's the code for the program, but I didn't have time to implement gerry's formula yet:

Code:

Public Class Form1

    Public Rank As New ArrayList
    Public Teams As New ArrayList
    Public Win As Integer
    Public Lose As Integer
    Public Dif As Double

    Public Function RFormula(ByVal WRank As Integer, ByVal LRank As Integer) As Double
        Return 32 * (1 - (1 / (1 + 10 ^ ((LRank - WRank) / 400))))
    End Function

    Private Sub Button1_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click
        Form2.Show()
        Me.Enabled = False
    End Sub

    Private Sub Button4_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button4.Click
        If MsgBox("Are you sure you want to remove this team?(Note:This team's matches will not be deleted)", MsgBoxStyle.YesNo, "Confirm") = MsgBoxResult.Yes Then
            Rank.RemoveAt(ListBox1.SelectedIndex)
            Teams.RemoveAt(ListBox1.SelectedIndex)
            ListBox2.Items.RemoveAt(ListBox1.SelectedIndex)
            ListBox3.Items.RemoveAt(ListBox1.SelectedIndex)
            ListBox1.Items.RemoveAt(ListBox1.SelectedIndex)
        End If
    End Sub

    Private Sub Button2_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button2.Click
        Dif = RFormula(Rank(ListBox2.SelectedIndex), Rank(ListBox3.SelectedIndex))
        Win = ListBox2.SelectedIndex
        Lose = ListBox3.SelectedIndex
        Label5.Text = "Winner: " & (Rank(ListBox2.SelectedIndex) + Math.Round(Dif)).ToString
        Label6.Text = "Loser: " & (Rank(ListBox3.SelectedIndex) - Math.Round(Dif)).ToString
    End Sub

    Private Sub Button3_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button3.Click
        On Error Resume Next
        Rank(Win) = Rank(ListBox2.SelectedIndex) + Math.Round(Dif)
        Rank(Lose) = Rank(ListBox3.SelectedIndex) - Math.Round(Dif)
        ListBox1.Items.RemoveAt(Win)
        ListBox1.Items.Insert(Win, Teams(Win).ToString & "    " & Rank(Win).ToString)
        ListBox2.Items.RemoveAt(Win)
        ListBox2.Items.Insert(Win, Teams(Win).ToString & "    " & Rank(Win).ToString)
        ListBox3.Items.RemoveAt(Win)
        ListBox3.Items.Insert(Win, Teams(Win).ToString & "    " & Rank(Win).ToString)
        ListBox1.Items.RemoveAt(Lose)
        ListBox1.Items.Insert(Lose, Teams(Lose).ToString & "    " & Rank(Lose).ToString)
        ListBox2.Items.RemoveAt(Lose)
        ListBox2.Items.Insert(Lose, Teams(Lose).ToString & "    " & Rank(Lose).ToString)
        ListBox3.Items.RemoveAt(Lose)
        ListBox3.Items.Insert(Lose, Teams(Lose).ToString & "    " & Rank(Lose).ToString)
    End Sub

    Private Sub Button5_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button5.Click
        Microsoft.VisualBasic.FileOpen(1, Application.StartupPath & "\rankings.blr", OpenMode.Output)
        MsgBox("Saved in: " & Application.StartupPath)
        For i = 0 To ListBox1.Items.Count - 1
            Microsoft.VisualBasic.Write(1, Teams(i), Rank(i))
        Next
        Microsoft.VisualBasic.FileClose(1)
    End Sub

    Private Sub Button6_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button6.Click
        If MsgBox("Warning: This will delete current data. Proceed?", MsgBoxStyle.YesNo) = MsgBoxResult.Yes Then
            ListBox1.Items.Clear()
            ListBox2.Items.Clear()
            ListBox3.Items.Clear()
            Microsoft.VisualBasic.FileOpen(2, Application.StartupPath & "\rankings.blr", OpenMode.Input)
            Dim X As Object
            Dim Y As Object
            While (Not EOF(2))
                Microsoft.VisualBasic.Input(2, X)
                Teams.Add(X)
                Microsoft.VisualBasic.Input(2, Y)
                Rank.Add(Y)
                ListBox1.Items.Add(X.ToString & "    " & Y.ToString)
                ListBox2.Items.Add(X.ToString & "    " & Y.ToString)
                ListBox3.Items.Add(X.ToString & "    " & Y.ToString)
            End While
            Microsoft.VisualBasic.FileClose(2)
        End If
    End Sub
End Class

Public Class Form2



    Private Sub Button1_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click
        If Me.TextBox1.Text = "" Or Me.TextBox2.Text = "" Or IsNumeric(Me.TextBox2.Text) = False Then
            MsgBox("Please input the correct values", MsgBoxStyle.OkOnly, "Error")
        ElseIf TextBox1.Text <> "" And IsNumeric(TextBox2.Text) = True Then
            MsgBox("Team successfully added!", MsgBoxStyle.OkOnly, "Team Added")
            Form1.ListBox1.Items.Add(Me.TextBox1.Text & "  " & Me.TextBox2.Text)
            Form1.ListBox2.Items.Add(Me.TextBox1.Text & "  " & Me.TextBox2.Text)
            Form1.ListBox3.Items.Add(Me.TextBox1.Text & "  " & Me.TextBox2.Text)
            Form1.Rank.Add(CInt(Me.TextBox2.Text))
            Form1.Teams.Add(Me.TextBox1.Text)
            Form1.Show()
            Form1.Enabled = True
            Me.Dispose()
        End If
    End Sub

    Private Sub Form2_FormClosed(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.Windows.Forms.FormClosedEventArgs) Handles Me.FormClosed
        Form1.Show()
        Form1.Enabled = True
        Me.Dispose()
    End Sub

End Class

And to explain what is what:


So if you want a new formula it should just be inserted in the RFormula function, but right now I don't have time to insert gerry's formula because it requires the result of each round. I'll do that tomorrow.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by dad0 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:59 pm

Hastok majstore!

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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Gerry on Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:02 pm

# sasha: the idea to associate point at crown it's made only in the purpose of make the ladder more interesting and not for nbz good, to prove that my intention is just to make the ladder more fun u can pick that the new system that we use, is not advantaging my clan aka nbz coz we had a lot of balanced and even cm Vs fx and wS so our actual elo points are lower than they were with the old system, while the point of our direct opponent aka uc didnt suffer of this modify.

so stop the idiot spam who is not requested.


btw i want to say that, ill add a new variant to the formula that we use to calculate the elo points, based to the extention of the elo system made by Glicko. in the link below there's an explanation (if Cinc or anyother, is interested Razz)

link: http://www.freechess.org/Help/HelpFiles/glicko.html

in short it's a way to keep in considerations a new variable to consider the accuracy of ur actually elo's rating.

it wont affect u'r elo point (they will not decrease or increase) just if u dont play often u'r RD (rating deviation) will increase, otherwise if u play often ur RD will decrease, so if u play often u will gain/loose some less point that if u play rarely.

why? because if a clan play really often than his current elo points rappresente well the clan's real force, otherwise, if u play rarely, maybe ur elo points are not rappresenting ur real rank and so they will change faster to converge in a quicker way to ur real strenght.


PS: im quite sure to add this more plugin, if u have some serious and motivate objection just write it here and we can discuss about it.
About the point that will be associated to the crown there's some real objection?
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Sasha on Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:30 am

If I had drawn the image with the title of Nmazsclan would you consider the idea seriously ?
You took that idea in personal, while I just opened the current standings and wrote the first name on the image.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Gerry on Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:53 am

yeyeyeye... after a discussion with Sasha i have to apologize to him. (blablablablablablabla)

Coz he didn't know (coz he's noob) that the crown is not for the high ranked in the ladder... so he never intend to say anything bad and i misjudge him.

btw the crown is an addition, u can get the crown also if u are the last in the ladder standiings, u just have to defeat the current owner.









... btw sasha is still a noob
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

Post by Cyber on Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:27 am

Crown is just something more like it would be :
+10 STRIKE !
-5 STRIKE !
They are just some addons, nothing else and it's not needed to switch the Forum Logo; i don't know but i might will put on a site (free domain) with ladder ranks, team's rosters, players info, well it's ages that i don't work with PHP i guess i gotta take that manual back once more.
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Re: Problem with ELO Calculator : Looking for solutions

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